Urban Yamadori

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Urban Yamadori

Postby alpinebonsart » Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:42 pm

These are a few of the 30 odd trunks i came across at a local winery a few weeks ago .They were removed by an excavator ,firstly by crunching the tops off and then digging out and dumping along the roadside.My wife was horrified when she saw the trees being ripped out and raced home to tell me .
I instantly thought of Bonsai 2 man trees so without hesitation i went to investigate without the lady ,cos we know what would have happened .To my surprise and my wifes shock i collected 30+Big Elms ,4 Jap Maples and a 12 foot Golden Atlas Cedar . DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO AIRLAYER A CEDAR AND HOW LONG IT TAKES .
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Average height of 1200mm trunk thickness from 90mm to 200mm ,these will carve up well .I just purchased a new big bonsai carver , a Stihl Miniboss should cut them down to size and use the die grinder and Dremel to tidy them up .
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My 6 year old Son with his new Bonsai ,he chose the biggest trunk he could lift .
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The big Cedar ,i need to layer the top off to make a Big Cascade.If anybody knows how to and how long it takes "PLEASE" let me know
Now these will keep me off the streets and out of harms way .Development of these trunks into bonsai starters will take a couple years but the fun starts when i carve them up .At least half of the trunks have a shoot so i have a starting point .Have i done this before "YES ONCE" and the trunk died but i'm willing to give my best chop.With all these trunks i can afford a few stuff ups .Cheers Alpine
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Re: Urban Yamadori

Postby guzzigirl » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:23 am

good luck! those trees have gone through a lot of trauma :(
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Re: Urban Yamadori

Postby taffyman » Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:07 pm

Mate, that's some serious material there - what a 'find' (Y) I do hope you have some success with recovery. With regards to the Cedar, considering it's only just been taken from the ground I wouldn't be doing an air-layer on it right now. It's too good a tree to run the risk of losing it. I'd be waiting till it puts out some new roots and new foliage before attempting anything with it. If you think the existing roots aren't enough to sustain the foliage I'd suggest cutting the top off down to that lower branch that still has foliage on, then waiting for new shoots to emerge from the trunk before lowering it any further.

With all that material there will hopefully be some that survive - keep us updated on how they go.
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Re: Urban Yamadori

Postby alpinebonsart » Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:25 pm

guzzigirl wrote:good luck! those trees have gone through a lot of trauma :(

Hi guzzigirl, i've gone through a lot of trauma too and i survived , No seriously they were removed dormant and the roots were trimmed by me as they were excavated from the original 650mm post holes they were planted into . I have read that an elm can be taken and roots completely removed and they will survive ,i have collected "turtle backs" broken slab stumps of elms and placed them in the ground and they re-sprouted last season so i give these ones a 95%-99% chance of survival .Cheers Alpine
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Re: Urban Yamadori

Postby alpinebonsart » Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:35 pm

taffyman wrote:Mate, that's some serious material there - what a 'find' (Y) I do hope you have some success with recovery.

With all that material there will hopefully be some that survive - keep us updated on how they go.

Hi taffyman , Yes kissed by a tooth fairy the day these were removed .They were basically removed from the original post holes they were planted into ,about 650mm round .So really it is a if they were still growing in the large planter bags they were purchased in . The roots on most of the trunks had still confined themselves to the holes they were planted into .The one's that had escaped were new surface roots so a new narebri is already present .

The Cedar is in the same boat, removed as if planted yesterday with a perfectly round rootmass and undamaged .It was removed because 2 were planted and one out grew the other . I must go back and ask the gardener for the name of the elms and to leave a number i case they decide to remove more Maples . Cant see why it would not survive , the reason they were removed is that my apprentices "Yes Skippy and Bambi strike again " must have chewed the trunks as they have a lot of battle scars and some very nice natural Shari .Could also have something to do with the elm leaf beetle to close to the winery . They also had a drip system which was over watering because they were planted in red clay , basically waterlogged however no root rot is present
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Elms after selective root trimming , prior to planting . Place into the terrace because i couldn't be bothered making 30 odd training boxes when there's tree to collect .
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Cedar as retrieved from the winery ,the root ball is 400-450mm round with 1 break-away large root that i retained .
I wasn't aware that Atlas Cedars back bud or re-shoot on old wood ? I was going to bud graft some of the top foliage onto the lower trunk ,however i no nothing at all about grafting only tried layering of deciduous trees which i have success and failures . The top would make a magic Cascade if i new when and how Layering of Cedars is done then i would be a happy camper for another day . I will let the tree settle for a growing season and hopefully learn the facts before i try .

The elms will be trimmed with my new trimmer " The Stihl Mini Boss" just before bud burst is the best time to dramatically carve Elm Trunks so my research tells me , and painted with a white wash or water-based paint . Yes i will keep an update running now that you solved the upload issue ,thanks again. Cheers Alpine
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Re: Urban Yamadori

Postby taffyman » Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:16 pm

I'm a numbskull :evil: No, I don't believe they will bud back on old wood - they're a conifer so it's highly unlikely. So, for your tree, grafting and air-layering would definitely be the way to go.

Air-layering would be done just the same as any other tree, but expect to wait quite a while for roots to grow. I've heard of Black Pines taking three years to send out a decent root ball.

Approach or In-arch grafting is quite easy to do. All that's needed is to curve the donor branch round and over the branch (or trunk) you want it to be grafted to, cut a groove of bark across the branch and the same from the donor branch, place the donor over the other and bind tightly into place. They should fuse together in a couple of months.

I've never done bud grafting so can't advise on that score - should have a go sometime I reckon :-?
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Re: Urban Yamadori

Postby alpinebonsart » Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:53 pm

So, for your tree, grafting and air-layering would definitely be the way to go.


Hi Taffyman ,spoke with some switched on chaps about Airlayering Pines and Cedars and a combo of ring-barking and wire tourniquet together is the best method . The use of peat-moss and sand as the medium and a breathable container ,ie a pot with numerous holes not only for drainage but for air circulation even nylon flywire got the thumbs up and the normal period is as you said up to 2-3 years ,in some species 5 years .Using the method above results can be achieved as soon as 3 months , but they wouldn't say on which species {pinus or cedrus} the major reduction of time was .
Spring is the best time and never allow the medium to completely dry out or its "all over bar the shouting " .I have located a large Blue atlas Cedar {90 y o} pushed over by a Dozer its been on the ground for several years and i still very healthy as they felled the tree and didn't completely up root the trunk Now that i've been given the "low down on how to" i will set some air-layers on the head of the tree and see if they work.

Bud grafting is quite easy simply sharpen a small flat blade screwdriver to a chisel point {1 side only } to suit the bud size to be used . Inset it into the trunk "ground side to the trunk "at the required angle desired for the bud location ,either vertically down or vertically up "depending on the tree" through the bark to the hardwood making a "pocket" only not a "flap" . Vertically down for younger trees and up for older as that is the usual angle of the growth that you are trying to replicate , insert the 20-40mm long bud trimmed as per normal grafting into the pocket and wrap with grafting tape .
Then cover the union and surrounding area with some spagnum moss but not the top of the bud ,wrap firmly in glad wrap bud and all several times to conserve moisture around the area where the graft is . No need to tie the top and bottom as it is only required for holding the moss in position so the heat and wind doesn't dry the bud out .
We're Not trying to grow roots so moisture is not critical unless it is hot or windy for long periods ,then moisten the moss don't saturate.Sterilize all equipment as per normal grafting . Now all that sounds simple and the "Eddies" tell me it is ,so come spring i hope to test my skills and give it a shot .Cheers Alpine
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Re: Urban Yamadori

Postby alpinebonsart » Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:46 pm

There popping their little sap veins out folks ,all 31 of the elms are moving plus the trimmings that were taken and pushed into the ground are sprouting and growing roots .At the end of the day i will have around 40 American Elms up to 200mm trunks .I did reduce the height of most of the stumps but my time is up as far as styling them this year ,so i will have to allow them to grow rampant .What i challenge to look forward too ,Sumo's to 2 man trees of all styles i can think of and some
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Re: Urban Yamadori

Postby taffyman » Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:06 pm

Good to see your hard work is paying off Alpine. Tell me, do you have enough hours in the day, or months in the year to work on all your trees? :D
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Re: Urban Yamadori

Postby alpinebonsart » Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:42 pm

taffyman wrote:Good to see your hard work is paying off Alpine. Tell me, do you have enough hours in the day, or months in the year to work on all your trees? :D


They seem to think i'm superman now so after they bonsai me i should have all the time in the world to really get stuck into them .I spent 14 hours ,daylight til dark re potting , root pruning and pinching candles on the pines that were collected earlier in winter as the have bolted above and below ground as well .Mother nature has worked miracles on all of the collection , the thieves lightened the load unfortunately they took some 30 of my best Yamadori pines .SHIT HAPPENS .The sad thing is nobody saw a thing ,so much for nebourhood watch .Cheers
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